Windows 7 - Can't figure out networking PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!

Asked By djrave80

17-Aug-07 06:46 PM

I have my desktop and just bought a laptop.My desktop is my main computer and
running windows xp my laptop is running window xp pro .I have a linksys
wireless g with speedboost router.I have the laptop working fine wirelessly
but now I tried my hand at neworking I want to share my printer that is
hooked to my desktop and also share files between the two computer .I tried
the nework wizard and followed all the tutorials on the site on networking
and file and printer sharing .but i still can't get it to work what am i
doing wrong ????I can't see the files on my desktop with my laptop or vice
versa I have the hand under certain folders to make it shared and I used the
same workgroup name for both computer.please help

17-Aug-07 07:14 PM

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:46:02 -0700, djrave808


Do both computers have Internet service?  Look at logs from "browstat status"
and "ipconfig /all", from each computer, and try to diagnose the problem.  Read
this article, and linked articles, and follow instructions precisely (download
browstat!):
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My        email         is          AT         DOT
actual       address    pchuck       mvps        org.

17-Aug-07 09:09 PM

Hi
Successful Sharing involves some general consideration in Network settings,
http://www.ezlan.net/sharing.html
As well as specific adjustment of each computer according to what it is
allowed to be shared.
Vista File and Printer Sharing-
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/network/evaluate/vista_fp.mspx
Basic XP -
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/filesharing.mspx
Advanced XP - http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304040
Printer Sharing XP -
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/honeycutt_july2.mspx
Windows Native Firewall setting for Sharing XP -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875357
Windows XP patch for Sharing with Vista -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120
Jack (MVP-Networking).

18-Aug-07 10:51 PM

These are excellent suggestions but are many are Vista
Specific.

I have been having the same problem -- I cannot share 3
computers on a XP Linksys wireless network with a
WRVS4400N VPN router.  When all computers are wired
(CAT5 connected) to the router, I have full file and
printer sharing.  If they are all wireless connected I
lose all sharing.  In the wireless environment all
computers connect to the internet.  The VPN tunnel
works (I am using it right now.)

I have no software firewalls.  I have all file and
printer sharing "checked."  In all these discussions
that I have come across none explain this seminal
difference, why something changes from a wired
environment to a wireless environment.  They are not
handled the same way.  I have found that none of my 3
computers see each other.  None can ping each other.
The LAN is not functional.

I have been at this for 2 weeks now and this thread is
very close, but still does not offer the definitive
answer: why no sharing.   We need to go beyond the
simple explanations of firewalls and checking the
simple file and printer sharing conventions to
something far more obscure (yet simple).  That is what
we are searching for.

Many thanks,
Phil

19-Aug-07 09:52 PM

I am having the same exact problem on an XP system.  Internet works fine on
the desktop computer and wireless laptop (via the G router).  Printer works
on the desktop and the laptop when it is connected directly, but I cannot get
it to work on the laptop wirelessly.  You are a better person than me - 2
weeks - I am about to throw in the towel after one afternoon!

~Stephanie

19-Aug-07 10:38 PM

I am persistent.  But after two weeks I am ready to give up.
If you do a search there are probably 1000's of queries
related to "can't get  file and printer sharing."  None on
of these discussion results in a definitive solution beyond
the usual "turn on file sharing and turn off the firewall."
But that is not the full answer for so many of us.   Then
the trail suddenly turns cold ... the responses drift off.

I am so frustrated by this problems that I am ready to
revert to a wired network which will work flawlessly.    Not
without its problems but it is so much more robust and
foolproof once set up properly.

I had to become my own network admin at my medical office --
successfully for the last 10 years.   So I come to this
problem not as a neophyte, novice or ...... newbie.

1. The answer is either **highly** arcane but simple
2. Not known
3. A true "bug" or "limitation" of wireless networking
software conventions that is trying to balance security with
accessibility -- and failing.
4. the differences between XP and Vista just compound an
already insoluble problem.

I wish someone, who is brilliant, would answer this
question.   Just do the search.

Phil




message

20-Aug-07 12:33 AM

Phil,

I won't dispute the obvious fact that Vista is still, obviously, a Beta product.
Even so, besides the dozens of people writing here, and in other forums, for
help with file sharing, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are using
their Vista / XP LANs with no problems.

And there are a dozen or so known causes of networking problems that aren't
hinted at in the standard Microsoft Vista document, that gets quoted here a lot.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/network/evaluate/vista_fp.mspx

I can see your frustration.  Maybe my tutorial will give you some more ideas.
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/12/windows-xp-and-vista-on-lan-together.html

And we can certainly look at logs from "browstat status", "ipconfig /all", "net
config server", and "net config workstation", from each computer, which should
give us some idea what to look at next.  Read this article, and linked articles,
and follow instructions precisely (download browstat!):
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp

Or if you like, you're welcome to continue diagnosing the problem on your own.
But try to diagnose it methodically.
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/08/solving-network-problems-tutorial.html

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My        email         is          AT         DOT
actual       address    pchuck       mvps        org.

20-Aug-07 09:53 PM

Chuck,

Thank you for this complete response.  I have visited
your site and is... complete blood overwhelming.  Your
quotation "there are hundreds of thousands of people
who are using their Vista / XP LANs with no problems"
does not solve the problem for the thousands of us
still suffering.

I would like to clear up one essential point if you
please.  Many of us are still using windows XP.  I am
aware that Windows Vista poses its own additional
problems. I must repeat, in a *wired* LAN configuration
none of these problems with file or printer sharing
appears.  This is only a problem in the wireless
configuration.  So you must admit there is something
different about permissions and basic software
conventions that differ between a wireless and wired
LAN all other things being equal.

So when you say hundreds of thousands are having a
problem I will bet most of those are not using wireless
LANs.

Now I have gone to your site and have diligently played
with cdiag.cmd.  How do those of us who continue to
have problems beyond the simple firewall and "check
file and printer sharing" conventions go about
submitting the cdiag.cmd results to you?  How do you
prefer the submissions?

I have tried virtually every possible conceivable
configuration.  One limitation that I have that many
others have is Comcast.  Comcast does not allow static
IPs.  They prefer dynamic DHCP. This poses additional
limitations.  Nevertheless, I have designated each
computer with a static TCP/IP address and designated
the appropriate DNS1 and  DNS2.  Still no resolution of
this problem.  The computers do not see each other.
They cannot ping each other.

So please, if you will, let me know the netiquette and
proper way of submitting results to you.

Phil

21-Aug-07 10:37 AM

I've looked back over this and I can't even see what your problem is
supposed to be.
Please accurately describe the problem.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

21-Aug-07 11:08 AM

The first reason that you are having trouble is that something somewhere is
blocking ICMP packets.  You will not be able to
get your network operational until after you solve this problem with your
network.  A firewall is the usual reason, but there may be
others.  What "enable file and printer sharing" does is instruct the Windows
firewall to pass these packets.

The seminal difference between wireless and wired is that wireless absolutly
needs encryption.  It isn't easy to get the keys to match, but
unless they do, you will not be able to form a wireless network.  The need
for getting the keys to match is not especially obscure.

I found that I had less trouble with file and printer sharing if I used the
Net commands from within cmd.  It does seem to me that the explanations
in Help & Support apply more to XP before SP2.

With respect to getting remote printers to work, I found that mine would not
work unless the printer software was loaded on all computers.
A remote printer sends its output to the port on the host computer which
sends the spool file to the driver.  Since you have not disclosed the
manufacturer of your printer, that is all I can say.

In my case, I worked on this problem off and on for about six months.  When
I finally broke down and read MVP Chuck's instructions,
I solved my problems.  My network has been working flawlessly for well over
a year now.

I no longer use the remote printer capability because printing remotely is
so inconvenient for me.
Jim

21-Aug-07 03:32 PM

Phil,

For 2 or 3 computers, CDiag is small enough to just paste into your response
here.  Plenty of folks do just that, and it's not a security risk either.  No
hacker is going to be reading these threads

Anyway, I understand your frustration.  I get the same way, constantly.
Computers aren't simple.  Never were, never will be.  When they become simple,
it's because we're old and we can't see the details.

Now if WiFi is involved in the problem, it's relevant at the lower levels.  If
you understand layered troubleshooting, and the OSI model, you'll see that WiFi
isn't so tricky.  Just another layer of pain.
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/08/solving-network-problems-tutorial.html

But it wouldn't hurt to start with the basic diagnostics either.  Logs from
workstation", from each computer, is where we start, because many problems
become apparent there.  Read this article, and linked articles, and follow
instructions precisely (download browstat!):
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp

Now just for my personal edification, and since this thread seems to have a few
hangers on, are you also djrave808, g8rav8r, and / or MS?

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My        email         is          AT         DOT
actual       address    pchuck       mvps        org.

23-Aug-07 04:59 PM

Thank you Jim.  But by your own admission this was a
very very difficult process and you eventually
abandoned printer sharing which is the point of my
frustration.  I am trying to share one printer (with
out a print server) between three machines.

Encryption process is easy.  Sharing encryption keys
between the three separate machines is not the problem.

I am persistent.  I am a problem solver.  But wireless
networks have become so frustrating that I am about to
abandon the this problem and simply hardwire all three
computers.  I never had problems this tenacious in the
past with a wired router.   And, as I have mentioned
multiple times in his post, when hardwiring any one of
the three computers, filesharing and printer sharing is
immediately solved.  Immediately. Plus as a bonus, I
get the gigabyte transfer.

As also has a have mentioned, I think the philosophical
problem here is compromising wireless security with
accessibility.  I have found after too many many years
of network administration that most problems actually
easy.  What becomes overwhelming are the algorithms,
workarounds, switches, security policies they are most
often superfluous..

Many thanks,
Phil

31-Aug-07 02:12 AM

Chuck,

I know this is delayed .. but I have spent a huge
amount of time checking, double and triple checking my
system.  There is nothing wrong with this system of 3
home computers.  I am now convinced the problem is that
Infrastructure mode prevents true peer to peer file
sharing.  We must use "ad hoc" computer to commuter
(peer to peer) mode which less secure and probably does
not serve my purposes.  I have diligently worked
through a series of "netsh" commands, "route print"
commands as well as your own cdiag.

This is the only answer to why so many of these threads
just drop off.

I don't think infrastructure mode will allow peer to
peer sharing....

Please tell all of us we are missing something, because
the only other answer is there is something flawed
about the WRVS4400N VPN router (which almost no one has
any experience with -- too new).

regards,
Phil

31-Aug-07 09:36 AM

Phil,

I won't tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong.  With networking,
there's always something new to learn.

But in my experience, properly designed and functional hardware, against
properly configured operating systems, WILL work in infrastructure mode, with
peer to peer sharing.

So why not let us see some diagnostic logs, like "ipconfig /all", "net config
server", and "net config workstation", from each computer, so we can help
diagnose the problem.  Many people post their logs here, and sometimes learn
something new.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My        email         is          AT         DOT
actual       address    pchuck       mvps        org.

17-Sep-07 09:49 PM

I know that time is of the essence but have returned
one more time to this particular thread.  This is such
an important topic.

Virtually none of these suggestions offered through
these threats helped me to network my computers.  As I
always say, most networking problems are *very* simple
and elegant.  It just takes enormous time and effort
finding the simple switch.

The answer for me, and probably for so many others, is
a simple switch.  In the WRVS4400N VPN router there is
a simple switch called
Wireless Isolation(within SSID) located in the
disable this one switch.  Suddenly, after two weeks of
pain all computers are visible to each other and I am
able to share printers and files amongst the four
computers on this home wireless network.  That was it.

As a side issue I am still having trouble with the
master browser that seems to float from computer to
computer.  This is a separate issue that never seems to
have a definitive solution.  So the command  NET VIEW
still does not produce a consistent results.  But I am
able to share all printers and all files on all
computers.  If you think about it, it's very simple.
That is the point of this wireless isolation.  But the
documentation is absolutely worthless (pitiful) and
gives no clue as to the critical importance of the
switch.

Again, I know this will probably be hidden in time and
subordinated to the original question.  But someone
will find this a value.

Phil