Windows 7 - KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool keeps wanting to install

Asked By Bruce.
15-Aug-07 10:53 AM
My Windows XP Home SP2 system is stuck in an update loop.  All but one of
the updates yesterday installed ok.

Now the yellow shield in the taskbar tray keeps appearing and wanting to
install an update, the same update.  When I run the install, it installs
KB890830 Malicious Software Removal Tool.  No errors are reported and it
says "Done!" at the end.  The yellow shield disappears for about 1 minute,
pops back up again, and the process repeats over and over again.  I've
installed it about a dozen times but the shield keeps popping up.

I've rebooted - no help.  The shield just won't go away and stay away.

How can I diagnose what's going wrong and get the KB890830 installed for
good?

Thanks for any help.
Bruce.
Windows XP
(1)
Report
(1)
CompactFlash
(1)
Powertools
(1)
Saturday
(1)
Thursday
(1)
Registry
(1)
Woodward
(1)
  HEMI-Powered replied...
15-Aug-07 11:04 AM
Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour
...

Bruce, again, there's always a call to MS, but I wouldn't for this
one. What I think I'd do is uncheck the update, click Close, then
check the box that says "do not remind me again for this update"
and just forget this month's version of the malicious software
tool. It ain't worth didly anyway, IMO compared to dedicated
malware scanners, and another one will be along in a month.

--
HP, aka Jerry
  Bruce. replied...
15-Aug-07 11:52 AM
Thanks Jerry, but when it comes to malicious software, I don't regard this
as an optional update even if it not very good, so I'm much rather figure
this one out and fix it.

Does anyone else have an idea of how to diagnose this repeating update?

Bruce.
  HEMI-Powered replied...
15-Aug-07 12:13 PM
Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour
...

Bruce, I'm certainly not going to bug you or anybody about this,
but for me and others to understand better your total picture,
and also help ourselves, what kinds of AV and other malware
protection/scanners do you have? I have Norton System Works 2006,
and thus NAV 2006. Yes, I know Symantec's bad rep, but it works
for me. I also have the commercial Zone Alarm running as well as
eTrust's Pest Patrol. Plus, I am sitting behind a NAT-capable
router so my contantly on cable modem has at least a little
protection. I'm sure you also have Ad-Aware and Spybot Search &
Destroy as well as a good Registry tool such as JV16 Powertools.

IMO, SP2's erstatz firewall is totally useless, hence "ersatz."
When last I looked at trying to configure the SP2 firewall, I
discovered that I had to MANUALLY enter all the ports I wanted it
to monitor! Is that right, folks? I was frankly surprised and
disappointed that MS for all it's hype about SP2's increased
security didn't at least provide a pull-down list for all the
ports, with those that are most vulnerable easily identified.
And, please forgive a bit of emotion here. I don't think that MS
writes particularly innovative software of any kind I have
experience with. Useful, full featured, and competent, yes, just
not IMO innovative or state-of-the-art/world-class.

It is this feeling that makes me somewhat jaded about the
importance of the malicious software tool. Again, I fully
understand why you want to solve it. If I were you, I would want
to solve it also. Each of us have different backgrounds, levels
of technical expertise, and diffent experiences, so I seldom
dispute people unless I KNOW from personal experience that
trouble may crop up. Easy example: I always preface any OP
requesting info on a (almost always) free Registry cleaner to be
very, very cautious.

Speaking of my (over?) cautious nature, I ALWAYS set my own RP
before I allow ANY of these things to update. MS usually sets one
but not always. The others never do.

I DO allow MS's tool to work, so I'm not bashing them. I just
rely on the others far, far more. e.g., I do a comprehensive scan
on both my PCs that are networked together for the full suite of
bad guys, plus Pest Patrol and Zone Alarm, as well as NAV, are
presumably protecting me silently. Hmmm. I think I'm a couple of
weeks past my monthly schedule, better get cracking, huh?

You are wise to take all types of malware seriously, so I hope
you find a solution that works for you. And, again, have a great
day!

--
HP, aka Jerry
  sirwillia replied...
15-Aug-07 01:12 PM
Did you go to safe mode and restore to point prior to update!  The try to
disable your firewall for updates.
  Bruce. replied...
15-Aug-07 02:26 PM
I have Trend Micro Internet Security 2007.  I've tried disabling it but the
KB890830 update still refuses to install correctly.  It reports "done!" but
the yellow shield quickly pops up again and loops forever on this update.

As I said, every other update released yesterday installed perfectly.
KB890830 is the only one that won't stick.

Bruce.
  Bruce. replied...
15-Aug-07 07:10 PM
FYI, I went to this link and manually downloaded and intalled KB890830.
That appears to have fixed the install loop.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=AD724AE0-E72D-4F54-9AB3-75B8EB148356&displaylang=en&displaylang=en

Bruce.
  HEMI-Powered replied...
16-Aug-07 07:43 AM
Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour
...

OK, Bruce, thanks for the update. Good luck in finding the root
cause of your problem. As I said yesterday, I am not an MS-
basher, and DO use the malicious software removal utility, but
hardly as my main protection. Seems you do also. I've not had
your problem nor really any update that wouldn't stick or
wouldn't install at all, so maybe I've been lucky. There's an old
saying that goes like "if you're lucky, you don't have to be
smart but if you're smart you don't have to be lucky." Some truth
to that, I suppose, but I've found that you really need both.
When it comes to the ever increasing complexities of O/S's and
even apps and HW, the chances of getting some kind of difficult
to diagnose problem increases.

Just asking, not badgering. But, since you've had so much trouble
with this particular KB update, and you've got very good
protection that is likely far more effective, wouldn't it reduce
your frustration level at least to let it pass this month and see
if it corrects itself with the next release? I say this NOT to
piss you off but if you're at all like me, I have a very low
tolerance for PC-related frustration caused by errant software or
updates, so I try to be both prudent/safe and lowest risk.
Obviously, each of us needs to live their own lives and I will
again wish you good luck and have a great week!

As for me, I had no PC trouble but did make it to Woodward
yesterday to take some car pictures during the day and my wife
and I had another great 2 hours of cruising the Woodward Dream
Cruise last night. We MAY get in one more night of cruising after
dinner before the 4-lane road turns into a 4-lane parking lot in
both directions. In prior years, that has occured on Thursday
night, Friday during the day, and Saturday for the real cruise is
just a nightmare to drive. But, I'd much prefer to indulge my
love of cars and suffer some inconvience and frustration in
traffic than the same on an overgrown adding machine that won't
work! <grin>

--
HP, aka Jerry
  Bruce. replied...
16-Aug-07 08:04 PM
Nothing frustrates be more than an unresolved problem. :-)

As you probably saw in my other post, for whatever reason, manually
downloading the fix and installing took care of the problem.   I should be
set ... at least until next month. :-)

Thanks for your suggestions.

Bruce.
  HEMI-Powered replied...
17-Aug-07 07:59 AM
Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour
...


I'm with you, Bruce! But, to the extent I can - which often is
never - I also apply both the 80/20 Rule and the Law of
Diminishing Returns, both of which are good mathematically-
related reasons to only go so far on a problem that is not at all
crucial.

I had a REAL problem with XP crashing with a BSOD whenever I
tried to access a CD that was burned with UDF rather than Joliet.
Took six months to solve it. THAT was critical, as I was forced
to use my older PC to get content from the useless optical.

But, since I personally view MS's utility as a useful adjunct to
other ways I protect myself from "malicious software", NOT the
primary way, means that if it somehow can't or won't install, I
don't get frustrated about that. I can and do fall back on the
extensive protections I described to you earlier. But, just
because that is MY philosophy hardly means it is or should be
yours, nor does it mean that I try to jam my ideas down your
throat, I just explain my rationale to you (and any lurkers) and
let people reach their own conclusions.
NO problem. There's often more than one way to skin the cat, and
many people who have the normal automatic update function fail do
succeed by going to the update center and getting it manually.

BTW, Bruce, just for the record, what is YOUR view of the
robustness and effectiveness of MS's tool vs. the specialized
commercial products? I've already cited mine, I'd be interested
in yours or others, other than "I want all the MS updates no
matter how much work it takes." Thanks.

--
HP, aka Jerry
  Bruce. replied...
17-Aug-07 10:50 AM
I still have an unresolved BSOD on my wife's computer.  I've invested
countless hours in but never solved it.  Whenever a USB mass storage devices
is disconnected, her XP Home system BSOD.  That includes her CompactFlash
card read, her digital camera, and her MP3 player.  However, non-mass
storage devices like her USB scanner don't cause a BSOD.

I've tried everything I can think of and have posted in the relavant
newsgroups but no one has been able to help me pin down what software is
causing it.  So my wife's PC remains crippled because this.  It started over
a year ago.


I'm afraid I don't have much of an opinion on the MS removal tool.  I'm sure
it does something good, and it's free, so why not keep it up to date?  MS is
probably in the best position to know what critical XP bugs and exploits
need protecting against.  I doubt it's as good as a full blown antivirus
program, but it's free and doesn't seem to have side effects.

Bruce.
  HEMI-Powered replied...
17-Aug-07 12:34 PM
Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour
...


Those problems not only frustrate me into a blind rage, they
majorly piss me off because I cannot get anyone to even
acknowledge it, much less help. I tried to get MS's help on mine,
the UDF one, and they refunded my fee because they failed.

On yours, do you use the Safely Remove Hardware function sitting
in your systray first before attempting to disconnect? I imagine
you do, but I thought I'd start with the easy one. Then, are you
plugging into an actual USB port on your mobo or an extender, and
if an extender, is it powered or not? Finally, have you tried
completely eradicating everything in Windows that has to do with
USB and the specific devices you try to attach and let it re-
recognize the new devices? Again, I imagine you have, I'm just
trying some food-for-thought ideas like my nephew did when he
asked me one day if I'd looked for an older driver.

Also, if you haven't already, go into your BIOS set-up and tell
it to NOT complete a restart upon a failure. That will keep the
BSOD stationary until you can read what it says and get the error
code number(s). Again, I'll bet you've already done that. I
listed all these ideas in the hopes that you can find a seed of
wisdom in there that might fuel a successful Google search, MS KB
search, or even give you a chance in this or other Windows
support NG. In any case, good luck!


I never got anything at all on my USB problem in NGs, either,
even though I'd posted all of what I listed above as detailed
proof and what Event Manager said was going on in my system just
before the crash. Which reminds me, what does your Event Manager
say caused the problem?

Just thought of one more: do you have ANY USB devices, say a
printer, that you CAN disconnect hot without a crash? Maybe
that'll give you a new clue.

I agree fully with your analysis, Bruce. I use MS products that I
think may help me, if only 1%. Here, though, knowing MS's simply
attrocious record on even recognizing security vulnerabilities,
much less fixing them, I don't have nearly as much confidence in
them as maybe you do. I doubt that those people, as well-meaning
and professional as they may be, would recognize and honest to
God hit if it smacked their PC. As to whether MS is or is not the
best to judge their own problems, quite true. But, there's a
marketing side to the malicious software removal tool, in me
view: they began a major marketing blitz for XP SP2 by trying to
scare the bejeebers out of people in an attempt to get them to
upgrade, or for earlier version users to buy XP SP2. And, it
worked. So, without hitting you personally, what makes you think
that this time is any different.

The reason I asked you that question was to see if it has EVER
caught a bad guy. Mine never has, but my other utilities that I
outlined verbosely yesterday, find and report them all the time.
Zone Alarm, as you probably know, can be annoying because it
seems not to remember when I tell it to allow future behavior of
the same type, but I'd rather click OK than to not know. And,
when I do scans with Ad-Aware and Spybot, they ALWAYS find
something, although fortunately, nothing "malicious".

I didn't mention it sooner because I don't want to ignite another
controversy, but during one of my periodic preparations to
backing up my PC (which I am overdue on!) is to run a JV16
Powertools Registry cleaning scan in "agressive" mode. I fully
understand the risks of putzing with the Registry and take the
usual precautions, but I usually find hundreds and hundreds of
benign-but-useless entries and simply delete them. But, what I'm
really looking for is a key that smacks of malicious software.
I'm obviously techie enough that a bad guy would disguise it, but
I know what is on my system and can recognize something strange.
It was JV16's comprehensive Register Find feature that pinpointed
the UDF drivers for me that were scatter in a couple of obscure
places on my C:\

So, 1) good luck in fixing your USB problem soon, 2) try to take
it easy on the malicious software thingy if you can, but most
importantly, 3) have an absolutely great day! I've got one more
chance to cruise on Woodward this afternoon, so Adios, PC!

--
HP, aka Jerry
  Bruce. replied...
17-Aug-07 08:58 PM
Yes, however if I do, it immediately triggers the BSOD even before I
disconnect the device.


It doesn't matter.  Unplugging from the motherboard or a powered USB hub
does the same thing, BSOD.  I bought a new powered hub hoping that would
help.  Nope.


Yes.  I even went out and bought a new 4 port 2.0 PCI USB card and it does
the same thing too.  If any USB mass storage device is disconnected, BSOD
every time regardless of what port it's hooked to.


Done.  I even took pictures of the BSOD death screens.  Nothing in the dump
gives any indication of where it might be crashing.  I mean no driver names
or anything like that.


Thanks.  I've mostly given up as I ran out of ideas to try long ago.

Bruce.
  HEMI-Powered replied...
18-Aug-07 08:03 AM
Bruce. added these comments in the current discussion du jour
...

Groan! Seems like you've done all the things I might have, and
more. Sorry, but I am also out-of-ideas. Might this be a time to
call MS and pay for a tech support call? The fee is probably
higher than the $35 I paid last time a few years back, but
they'll refund the money if they cannot resolve the problem. That
happened to me once. I took advantage of their policy that you
could call as many times as needed on the same problem number,
but after their try #3, THEY gave up and refunded my money.

Sometimes throwing some money at a problem solves it, presuming
you have the money, of course. One other thing it does is stop
the frustration and pissed-off-ness one feels with such an
annoying problem. I could suggest shutting down the PC before
unplugging, but restarting via a BSOD is essentially the same
thing.

Sorry you've had to give up. Maybe lightning will strike one day
as it it did with my 6+ month struggle to figure out why XP Pro
SP1 could read UDF optical discs but SP2 immediately went to
BSOD. And, like you, both the screen info and Event Manager
provided no clues. Worse, it was pointing to an MS driver failing
(!) when it turned out that it was one of 5 that Roxio 5 put on
that actually caused the failure. Once I found the root cause, I
deleted everything that had any variant of "udf" in it's file
name and did an exhaustive search of the Registry for that plus
anything that said "roxio". Installing Roxio 8 put the correct XP
SP2 compatible UDF driver(s) in place and the problem instantly
went away. A classic example of even a couple of experienced
people, myself and my nephew, working on and off on it for
months.

Well, have a great weekend. The Woodward Dream Cruise official
cruise is today, but is impossible. I went last night and made
only one fairly short loop, 11.2 miles in 2 hours 15 minutes.
But, what a blast! And, a pleasant break from computers.




--
HP, aka Jerry
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