Windows Patch?

Is Microsoft going to release a patch for all these problems with WinMail?
(For me I want to SEND messages).  The methods with the WMUTil is just too
convoluted and probably should only be processed by experts
--
abc

Windows Patch?

Unlikely.

They are going to replace it with Windows Live Mail pretty soon.

They are going to replace it with Windows Live Mail pretty soon.

--
Peter
Toronto, Canada
XP Pro SP2 x 2 + Vista Ultimate Triple Boot
P4 HT @ 3ghz, 4gb DDR, 700gb HDD
Soundblaster Audigy 4 PCI Sound
ATI Radeon X1650 Pro AGP Graphics

The 'patch' was released May 30th and is called Windows Live

The 'patch' was released May 30th and is called Windows Live Mail:
http://morethanmail.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!B7DD1FF3F141F9A1!3459.entry

Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

I still find Windows Mail, even with its shortcomings, to be preferable to
Windows Live Mail.

They claim that they will start supporting Windows Mail again.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Do not send mail.

Windows Patch?

I will believe that when I see it.
And it will be too little -- too late.

--
Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

Besides... what does "again" mean... did they ever?

Windows Patch?

Hah, good point. We sure had little luck during the Vista beta
convincing Microsoft to fix bugs in Windows Mail.
--
Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

Right up to the release of Vista at the end of November.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Do not send mail.

Windows Patch?

LOL that is cute.

Supporting a product only up to the point
where it needs to be supported is priceless.

Windows Patch?

This Windows email client situation is becoming ridiculous! Are MS really as
dithery about this as they appear to be? A spruced up OE called Windows
Mail, which seems basically OK, hardly off the starting blocks and it
appears it is to be abandoned in favour of WLM, which is only available in
beta! I'm not a MS basher, but seriously, it doesn't exactly inspire
confidence. Thank goodness I use IMAP, so my emails are not trapped inside a
potentially dead-in-the-water client's database. I really like Vista, but
the email client debacle is a little frustrating. Does anyone have any
greater clarity on what we should expect? If not I will have to seriously
consider moving to a third party client just to get some certainty.

Thanks for any thoughts, sympathy, encouragement, etc.

--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.

Windows Patch?

At this point Microsoft is not even soliciting beta testers to submit
bug reports for Windows Mail, so whatever fixes Microsoft has in store
for Windows Mail are a long way off.

I personally find it very disheartening because I have lived with Outlook
Express for so long that it seemed like an old friend. We all hoped that
WM was going to be a modernized OE, but so far it has not lived up to
its promise. Microsoft is not being forthcoming with respect to what its
future plans for WM are.

If neither WM or WLM receive significant attention from Microsoft
within the next few months, I will probably migrate to Outlook 2007,
since it is already on my computer.
--
Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

Yes, it's terrible.  Windows Mail has enough features missing from Windows
Live Mail (the last time I used it) that I prefer WM to WLM.  However, WM
also has bugs that have been fixed in WLM.  It's the same programming team.
I can see why MS prefers to have you use WLM, but I don't like the adds and
I won't pay for Hotmail.  I also think WLM is uglier than WM, which is
uglier than OE.  The real improvement in both WM and WLM is that they got
rid of the awful DBX files and store each message as an individual EML file.
Unfortunately, I can't decipher the names to know which file is which
message without opening the files.

I am not happy about the whole mess.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Do not send mail.

Windows Patch?

* Gary VanderMolen:

While I find it obnoxious when someone says "I told you so",
I'm going to say it- I've been harping on this for a year... since
the beta days.  That doesn't help, but Microsoft has been fully
aware of WM's sorry performance for a long time.

I posted here and sent feedback to Microsoft on numerous occasions.
Back then, I thought Microsoft would have to be real dumb to release
Windows Mail in such a sorry state in a brand new OS.
See, there were two things most folks use every single day, something
that is common between most users of Windows- Outlook Express
and Internet Explorer.  Even those who use Outlook for email still used
OE for newsgroups.  And, as you said Gary, it was like an old friend.
I knew that a program with such a wide user base would garner many
complaints if it wasn't fixed, and it wasn't.  People who upgrade to Vista
are left wondering WTF, where's my dependable Outlook Express?
of users that this affects is enormous.  Which is why I couldn't believe Microsoft
would actually release Vista with WM in its bug ridden state.  It and IE are
the first two programs users will encounter and want to use right away.
The perception WM will give a new user about Vista, will not be very flattering.
And I stated that exact thing several times before Vista's release.
Of course, I wasn't the only one telling it like that.

Now, we have this mess of WM and WLM.  While WLM is better, it is still
terrible for handling newsgroups.  The confusion that has been created
because of this would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

Gary, if you have Office 2007 already, use it.  Once you get used to
Outlook, it is the best email client out there.  Period.

Perhaps, one could sneak a conspiracy theory into this mess and say
that- it's really Microsoft's intention to push users toward buying Office
so that they will have an email client that functions well.  Of course, that
doesn't do a thing for newsgroups... but Thunderbird sure does.


Take care,

Michael

Windows Patch?

* Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM:

Frank, WLM no longer has ads.  And you can turn off the search bar with
its "relevant links".  Also, you don't have to pay to access Hotmail through
WLM.  I give Microsoft credit for doing those things, but WLM still falls
short for me, and they've created quite a bit of confusion.  It should have
never come to this.

One other positive thing Microsoft has done, sometime soon they will be
releasing a new Outlook Connector that will allow Outlook users to access
their Hotmail for free.


-Michael

Windows Patch?

Well, I can't afford a new MS Office. I have Office 2000 though. Word &
Excel are fine in that, but I know Outlook 2000 is rather insecure. Can
anyone comment on the thought of using it on Vista, as it is pretty good
as an IMAP client. Otherwise I'll setiously look at Thunberbird,
although there is the occasional issue with its address book which has
tended to keep me away from it until now.  Appreciate any comments.

--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.

Windows Patch?

Outlook 2000 has issues with Vista.
See: http://www.outlook-tips.net/howto/vista.htm
--
Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

Yeah, thanks Gary, good of you to give me the heads up about that. I've
made my decision and it's Thunderbird with the calendar extension. The
Vista calender is nothing more than the old MS Works calendar tarted up
slightly, and it has some significantly bad design points. TB is running
just fine, with none of the issues that seem to be plaguing Windows Mail
etc. Thanks for your help.

--
Peter in New Zealand. (Pull the plug out to reply.)
Collector of old cameras, tropical fish fancier, good coffee nutter, and
compulsive computer fiddler.

Hello Frank, Gary, Michael and JulianThanks for your brief observations re

Hello Frank, Gary, Michael and Julian
Thanks for your brief observations re WinMail - my daughter insisted on
having Vista on a new computer in March(which was against my advice, having
kept an eye on the groups) and she has had nothing but problems each week.
I quickly made sure she had the relevant newsgroups to help her.
Over the last month the WinMail has almost completely gone - she can send
and receive but she can no longer delete from the default folders.
I told her to wait and see if there is anything in this months Black Tuesday
update - it appears that there will be nothing.  I have told her to download
nothing from MS that might update her to WLM.
So I shall suggest she moves to TB  and kills Win Mail.
Thanks again
Rgds
Antioch

Windows Patch?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


To be fair I didn't have a single problem with WM, I just needed email
signing & encryption facilities "on the fly" & the best free so;ution I
am aware of for this is TB / enigmail with GPG.

I am sure your daughter will enjoy using TB, I tend to install it now on
all systems I set up for people & I get no complaints & am aware of
no-one ditching it for WM or OE etc ;-)

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGbwYvqDp2fu862vwRApOtAJ9eTk07eR8pFE8KILP6qKATXxP47ACfTvJW
nl/uqFGPwczAb07sJ6J8XwQ=
=0djt
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What have you got against WLM?

What have you got against WLM? To me it seems very
similar to Thunderbird.

Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

After having tried TB for a while, I fine WLM better than TB and not an
awful lot worse than WM.
So I rank them (from best to worst:
Windows Mail
Windows Live Mail
Thunderbird

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
Do not send mail.

Windows Patch?

* Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM:

Wow.


-Michael

Windows Patch?

Not sure I agree with your ranking but all seem to have their advantages and
disadvantages.  Right now, for speed and reliability TB wins hands down in
my opinion.  Since WLM is still in beta though that could well change and
I'm hoping it will.  The lack of Hotmail\MSN HTTP support in WM is a design
decision that I will never understand - I mean really, lets design an email
client that doesn't even support our own email hosting?  I still have my
fingers crossed that MS will make several of the changes to WLM that have
been suggested here and can solve the speed and reliability issues.    If
they do, WLM will move to the head of the pack in my view.

Windows Patch?

Anyone have a projection as to what will happen with WM?
Here's my guess. When Service Pack 1 for Vista is released, it will
include the finished WLM, which will then physically replace WM.
Why? WM wasn't really finished when Vista was declared RTM quality.
Microsoft doesn't want to invest the time and resources necessary to
finish and fix WM after they have already expended much effort on WLM.
--
Gary VanderMolen

Windows Patch?

* Gary VanderMolen:

I tend to agree, Gary.

Working WLM into SP1 does make since.  Regardless of how/when
WLM is set to totally replace WM, I do believe it is meant as the
replacement for WM, sooner or later.  From everything that I have
I read and an interview given by a lead Windows Live developer-
there will be no further development on WM.... it's dead.  While it's
unfortunate that this whole mess has happened, it absolutely makes more
sense for Microsoft to focus their talent and resources on only one free
email client.  This whole mess was really created by some knuckleheads
who wanted WLMD to be an ad revenue generator.  But they knew that
there would be those who wouldn't use it because of that, so they kept
on with WM.  Fortunately, the developers and marketing caught a clue,
and took out the ads.

Will WLM also be part of SP3 for WinXP as a replacement for OE?
Maybe.  But, I see OE getting a death sentence similar to an old
Office product- yes, it can still be used but official support will cease,
and WLM will be offered instead.  I see WM, at some point, totally
being replaced.... future Vista install discs containing WLM and not WM.
And really, after the aggravation of all this has worn off, it only makes
sense to maintain, support, and develop *one* free email client.  There
will be those unhappy users, but looking at it from a business POV, there
can only be one free email client.... before this mess, that's how it had been
for a long time.  Free Outlook Express and paid for Outlook.  Somewhere
along the line things got complicated and discombobulated, it looks
like now Microsoft is trying simplify the situation.  Hopefully, WLM becomes
a much better product and we'll all forget about this confusion.


-Michael

Windows Patch?

* Kevin Young:

I agree about Thunderbird.  Like you, I believe that may change as WLM
progresses.... I hope so.

The lack of Hotmail support in WM was a bad business decision- it
was meant to drive users towards what was the ad supported WLMD,
or drive them to the web interface (more ads).  It's why they discontinued
free Hotmail support via Outlook Connector in Outlook- which they have
also done an about face.  The new Outlook Connector once again allows
for free Hotmail.  Thankfully, someone got a clue.

Take care,

Michael