Windows 7 - Number of Linux Distributions Surpasses Number of Users !!!!!!

Asked By Moshe Goldfarb
06-Apr-08 10:19 AM
and Goober Linux 1.0, the number of Linux distributions finally surpassed
the number of actual Linux users."


Tom Shayes said, "but this is a little sooner than most expected.  We've
seen explosive growth in the number of Linux distributions, in fact my
nephew just put out LittleLinux Chart Tommy Linux 1.1 last week."


http://www.bbspot.com/News/2000/4/linux_distros.html
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Vista
(1)
Linux
(1)
PCLinuxOS
(1)
LiveDVD
(1)
APIs
(1)
DVDs
(1)
ARTS
(1)
LittleLinux
(1)
  Hadron replied...
06-Apr-08 10:28 AM
Kewl! Does it "rock" and "work really well"? Does it meet your "needs"?


LOL. At least some people get it.
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 10:41 AM
Hahaha!

Linux and the Linux community is a ball of confusion, a clusterfsck that is
fragmented, filled with hateful, arrogant people and which has no direction
or leadership.

Everyone is free to do their own thing, which is fine if you wish to remain
like the above.
However if Linux ever has a hope of challenging Microsoft for the desktop
it is going to have to reign in the confusion and become organized, even if
it is loosely organized at first.

They can start with why the need for so many different package managers.

Then they can move to why they need 15 different sound systems.

Why so many different native file systems.

Why different startup and shutdown scripts doing different things at the
various levels in the boot/shutdown process.

Why so many different, and duplicate tools to mange the distribution.

An example is Samba.

There has to be a dozen or more tools to set up Samba and for anyone who
has attempted to set up Samba they know how confusing it is.
The net is clogged with How-To's on this topic and it is surely one of the
most frequently asked questions in Linux help groups.


They should take the best of the best, meld it into ONE TOTALLY WORKING
distribution and then put all the other stuff in a repository free to
download if anyone wants to.
This way they can take all of these people who are working on their own
distributions and pool their resources and talent to create a Linux that
actually works instead of the slopware (mostly) that is what desktop Linux
currently is.

But the Linux community won't allow this because they cry "we want
choice!!"

Evidently they want inferior slopware programs as well.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 10:44 AM
Why the obsession with Windows and Microsoft?
What are you guys afraid of?


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  Liarnut replied...
06-Apr-08 10:58 AM
http://distrowatch.com/
Development Release: PUD GNU/Linux 0.4.8.6 LXDE Edition
Ubuntu-based mini distribution based on the newest LXDE 0.3: "This edition
of live CD....."


LMAO     Lxers will be pounding their PUDs now.
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 11:04 AM
Yep.

Yet another Linux distribution is born.
More confusion.
More slopware.
Same, even after 10 years, 0.6 percent desktop market share.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  Rick replied...
06-Apr-08 11:12 AM
... more illegal market manipulation?



--
Rick
  brummyfa replied...
06-Apr-08 01:06 PM
Ubuntu expands your wisdom and provide you with plenty of choices so that
you decide what is suitable and comfortable to work with unlike Vista which
thinks you are an idiot and you have nothing else worth while to do.
I use both but the difference is I chose to use Ubuntu and the Vista has
been dumped on me by the manufacturer of the laptop.
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 01:07 PM
Of course Linux has been improving, but being able to create your own
distribution of the month caters to a small subset of geeks and does
nothing but further the confusion.

The vast majority of the market are USERS not geek programmer types.
That is one major reason why Linux does not appeal to average Joe.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 01:14 PM
What is it with Linux user and World War II atrocities?
You guys are truly sicko...


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  netcat replied...
06-Apr-08 01:24 PM
You don't have to be a geek. Under Ubuntu all it takes is one command to
generate a LiveDVD using your current setup. You can use the LiveDVD on
future reinstalls or if you plan to install to more than one machine, and
you can also boot it on the same machine or a different one and have the
same settings and applications as on your HD. Throw in a USB drive for
persistent storage and you can even save data and configuration changes.
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 01:25 PM
You've just proved my point.........

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  Hadron replied...
06-Apr-08 01:39 PM
caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> writes:


Most people (including Tattoed Lobotomy) want their desktops to work and
have applications working that employees must use to do a job of
work. Not something to give them pleasure.
  Jeff Glatt replied...
06-Apr-08 01:50 PM
Overall, yes. But then, any sufficiently large demographic seems confused to me
because... well, people can be really, really different from each other.


If you're talking about the "I hate MS and everything associated with it"
brigade, then yeah, those folks are really annoying and useless. Also, the
Linux "unpaid salesmen" (typically referred to as "fanbois") are really
annoying, because they're more interested in selling you on their particular
pet distro than actually being honest and helpful. They also almost always
belong to the aforementioned brigade, which makes them doubly useless.

The annoyance of too many Ubuntu fanbois helped convince me to switch to
Debian. I just found Debian to a more serious distro where you can find good
help without having to endure fanbois as much. I was able to put together a
Debian system to do exactly what I wanted easier than with Ubuntu.


Overall yes. But see my comment above about large demographics.



Yeah, that really needs to be addressed. I read an article about a guy who
proposed to have an API added to Linux to aid in the installation of software.
He got a bunch of developers of various package managers together, and got some
feedback from them. The conclusion seemed to be that most of them were planning
to simply keep doing things their own way, weren't all that interested in a
standard Linux API for installation purposes, and didn't really have much of an
interest in working on a more common solution. C'est la vie. So what we have is
a bunch of package systems, and app developers who don't support them all
because it's too much of a pain in the ass.

When I package my software, I make a deb, and that's it. It's not that I have
anything against other package managers, but I happen to use apt-based distros,
and I just don't have the time nor inclination to bother with the package
managers of other distros. If those folks don't want to make it easier for me,
then I'm not interested in them.


Because nearly all of them have their flaws, being designed by people who have
some good ideas, but unfortunately, do not seem to choose to have those ideas
peer reviewed by appropriate people (other sound developers, musicians, etc)
before coding starts. This is a really big problem with lots of open source
development. People start coding without taking the extra step of first writing
up some sort of detailed documentation about how the API will work, and getting
that peer-reviewed by other folks who could give good feedback (and maybe
propose some changes that will head off a lot of future dissatisfaction with
the finished code, and forestall a reason for those other dissatisfied folks to
start their own sound system. For some reason, those other dissatisfied folks
repeat the same mistake of not doing what the first programmer should have
done).

I always write up the docs for my software before I even start coding. I
*never* use any sort of utility that creates docs from comments in the source
code, and I think that stuff should be outlawed because it encourages people to
fail to do enough "flow charting" and proper peer review before they start
coding.


Probably for the same reasons as above.



I'm sort of with you here. But actually I want more real choice. What I'm
getting with Linux is a bunch of choices that are, to me, pretty much all the
same thing. For example, I don't want a choice between a GUI API that runs atop
of X (and inherents its inherent limitations and design flaws) such as Gnome,
and another GUI API that runs atop of X too such as KDE. I want people to
support more real choices, like instead of dividing up programming attention
between those two, maybe support something that really is much more different
(such as directfb). I don't want a choice between Pulse Audio (ick) or ALSA
(better than Pulse Audio, but still with its problems -- problems that Pulse
Audio inherents because it rides on top of ALSA). I want a choice between sound
systems that really do have a radically different approach. Etc.

There are way, way too many Linux "choices" that are far too similiar, have the
same basic set of features and limitations, and seem to exist simply because
people aren't collaborating better. I'd rather see more collaboration among
people who are doing pretty much the same thing, and encourage "choice" where
it really offers something significantly different. The problem Linux has is
that people aren't collaborating enough when they should, nor are they doing
something significantly different when they should. We're getting choices that
aren't enough of a choice.
  Tattoo Vampire replied...
06-Apr-08 01:54 PM
Hey, fool. I derive great enjoyment from listening to streaming radio
stations, burning CDs and DVDs, and watching movies.

You're not just a troll, you really ARE stupid.
--
Regards,
[tv]

How you look depends on where you go.
  Bruce Chambers replied...
06-Apr-08 02:06 PM
It was bound to happen.

Linux Distro Timeline
http://kde-files.org/CONTENT/content-files/44218-linuxdistrotimeline-7.2.png


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot
  Hadron replied...
06-Apr-08 02:19 PM
Bruce Chambers <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> writes:


And they forgot bobbi's favorite - Mint.
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
06-Apr-08 02:44 PM
Linux needs some organization because it's obvious that everyone is doing
their own thing and no clear "winner" has emerged, except maybe
Ubuntu/Debian.

There has to be a focus to fix what is wrong with Linux rather than
releasing even more broken distributions.



You've just described COLA to the letter.

There are a couple of PAID fanbois in COLA as well though.


Agreed.
I think they should rename their trees though because the stable/unstable
etc stuff is confusing.


This is called "choice" in COLA.
While technically it is choice, it is also confusing and not helping the
Linux cause at all.

Fragmentation is not a good thing for Linux.

Too many Indians and not enough Chiefs IMHO.


This is where "pooling resources" would help Linux.

The idea is that people want to play/record/edit sounds.
They don't want to have to play with various Linux sound systems and they
certainly don't need the different sound systems all competing for
interrupts and thus resulting in no sound at all.
IOW playing two sounds from two different applications at once is a crap
shoot depending upon which sound system is active.

We've all seen the /dev/dspx is in use by another program/process message.

This just doesn't happen under Windows unless you are using some high end
package like Nuendo which assumes it is the only application using the
sound subsystem.
IOW it's highly unlikely a musician would be listening to streaming radio
while mixing or recording his latest project :)



That's another Linux problem, documentation.
Either the docs are too minimul (ie:The File menu contains, etc )
or they are too complex.
And then there is the tons of outdated How-To's and so forth on the net as
well as specific doc for each individual distribution and now you have a
giant mess.



Yep.
Everyone is doing their own thing.
Except maybe Hans Reiser who will be doing what he is told for the rest of
his life, most likely.


We agree.
I also see a need for the targeted distributions like DSL (low resource
systems) or the firewall on a floppy distribution (I can't remember it's
name but it is very good), audio recording based distributions are ok as
well.

It's the distributions that are nothing but graphics, maybe a different
menu strutcture etc that are confusing things because they are so close to
the versions they are based on.

How many Ubunut offshoots are there?
There must be at least 100 of those alone.



The problem is they are reinventing the wheel over and over again and while
a particular distribution may solve one problem, it creates another problem
in the process and the cycle continues.


Your post is a fine one BTW Jeff.
The people in COLA could learn from your honesty and unbiased view of
things.

BTW when I make mention of Linux loons etc I am speaking of COLA and real
zealots. I'm not referring to Linux advocates  in general because most of
them don't act like the loons in COLA do.



--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
  Frank replied...
06-Apr-08 03:09 PM
Who are you fukkin kidding. You're a moron who also just happens to be a
complete idiot and a fool!


You're just a little whining POS loser!
STFU BUNNYMAN...LOL!
Frank
  Frank replied...
06-Apr-08 03:12 PM
hehehe...that is funny...and proly true...LOL!
Frank
  Rick replied...
06-Apr-08 03:16 PM
So, you too prefer a dictatorship. Figures.


How can a kernel want anything? Or do you mean the "Linux Community".
And, if so, how do you expect a community to to act in the same way a
single corporation can?


That has already been answered. Different groups saw different needs.
Different managers arose.


Name all 15.


Because each has different strengths.


Apparently "the community" doesn't agree on which Samba management tool
is the best. Why don't you just tell them, and then you can enforce your
decision.


Who is "they". Who gets to decide what s "best"?


How are you going to force those developers, whose disros you killed, to
work on "someone else's" distro?


Why do you use slopware?
--
Rick
  Rick replied...
06-Apr-08 03:20 PM
it probably would not matter. Herdm mentality, Inertia, Network Effects.

--
Rick
  Rick replied...
06-Apr-08 03:29 PM
How can a kernel want anything? Or do you mean the "Linux Community".

Well, why don't go form a committee?


In your opinion. WHen will you get it through your head that the
Linux/OSS/FOSS development model is not the same as having one company
make the decisions model?


ANd hhow much do you make for your posting?


You don't knoe the difference between stable and unstable?


ANd who are you to make that decision?


Well, why don't you make a decisoins and force everyone to use it?


... unless? unless? So it does happen in Windows.


Well.. go write some documentation instead of bitching.


You really are a puke of a person.


I see. A specialized distro is OK as long as it is something you agree with.


List them. All 100.


So what?


So... you call Linux software slopware and crapware. Why do you use
slopware and crapware.

--
Rick
  mimus replied...
06-Apr-08 05:56 PM
But they are all running Linux 2.6 . . . .

Only the bells and whistles change!

--

Usenet is a strange place.
  netcat replied...
06-Apr-08 05:27 PM
Fortunately, the average user is smarter than a flounder...
  DanS replied...
06-Apr-08 05:58 PM
@registered.motzarella.org:



Of course, you are assuming that most computers are used in a business
setting to do business.

Maybe 15 years ago, but not today.
  Hadron replied...
06-Apr-08 06:10 PM
DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> writes:


And of course I would expect Linux to be more popular in Business where
working multimedia and top notch gaming SW are less of a requirement.

--
Whoever asked if the debian organization was dead isn't reading
debian-devel. 66 messages in one day, and it's not over. I find it
difficult to keep up.
-- Bruce Perens
  Whoknew replied...
06-Apr-08 07:38 PM
Another Linturd Liar
  Jeff Glatt replied...
06-Apr-08 08:57 PM
Yes, I've seen examples of them. It's a shame that they use Linux because
they're counterproductive. Not only don't they help people who do use Linux,
they also alienate people who don't use Linux.

I've had recent experiences with them in this newsgroup too. I talked a little
about the problem with developing for KDE in regards to a C programmer, and
someone who obviously has no programming experience (despite his claims to the
contrary) posted an annoying fanboi response filled with accusations about
advice. Needless to say, the fanboi was unable to answer the person's
questions. I had to provide answers to the queries. It's annoying when fanbois
interrupt and destroy conversations that more knowledgeable and responsible
people are trying to have, and its counterproductive for others to have to
clean up the mess they make when those of us with a better perspective could be
applying our efforts elsewhere.


I'm hoping it will flop and go away. I have absolutely no confidence in that
code base, nor the person maintaining it. He doesn't do proper error-checking
in his code, and actually defends that practice. He calls malloc() without
checking the return value. His "excuse" is that other programmers do this as
well, and anyway the Linux "process killer" will "take care of things". I'm
sorry, but I don't want my app to suddenly be terminated because I happen to be
calling some library that doesn't do proper error checking. I write audio and
MIDI software, and I will never use Pulse Audio. ALSA may be an API that takes
data abstraction to an annoying degree, but at least the ALSA devs know how to
do proper error checking, and therefore, their API is stable and reliable.

Incidentally, Pulse Audio is pretty much a daemon that sits on top of ALSA. It
really has nothing to offer that ALSA doesn't already offer, except that it
therefore claims to be able to replace them all. Plus it does this sort of
own if programmers wanted to. Any other of its features are strictly mickey
mouse fluff. The only significant thing Pulse Audio offers is increased
instability under low memory conditions. I very much recommend against its use.
This so called "ear candy" will give serious audio users an ear ache.

I think that the whole lot of sound APIs should be scrapped, and ALSA should be
given a redesign to eliminate some of the redundancy (ie, sometimes there are
several different ways to do the same thing, apparently just for the hell of
it), and the abhorrent level of data abstraction. (I have particular ideas on
that too, but this goes well beyond the gist of this thread). There's nothing
inherently wrong with ALSA that a whole lot more care would solve much better
than the proliferation of audio APIs, particularly ones such as Pulse Audio
which will just introduce more instability for very little gain.


Yes. Real choice is not "I can get a hamburger at McDonald's or I can get a
hamburger at Burger King.". Real choice is "I can get a hamburger at
McDonald's, or I can get a sitdown meal at the gourmet restaurant down the
street". The difference between the vast majority of Linux distros, and Linux
software in general, is much more like the former than the latter.


Yes, and unfortunately so. They're choosing some really trivial feature sets,
such as having audio (speaker) panning follow the mouse pointer, at the expense
of system stability. The first thing I'll do with any distro I install
containing Pulse Audio is to disable and remove that daemon, and do the same
with any software that requires it.

There is no reason why features such as these can't be added to ALSA, with
better performance -- other than the fact that they're really cartoonish
features, and not really suitable for a serious audio API.


In what particular ways? Note that Pulse Audio sits on top of ALSA, so it's
behavior is ultimately inherited from ALSA.


ALSA, as of the newest version, is a rather reliable API. I've done a complete
code audit of it, and I found some bugs in previous versions, but those were
fixed in the latest version. I do not see any noticeable bugs. On the other
hand, Pulse Audio is a poster child for lack of proper error checking. I did a
code audit of it, and if the author were a computer science student, I'd flunk
him.


Is that really necessary? If these people are doing something counterproductive
to Linux, that's unfortunate. But why bring them up in a message that really
has nothing to do with them?
  Erik Funkenbusch replied...
06-Apr-08 09:29 PM
Lol, takes you back to Utica... the good old Dissident days, commenting
about Amiga fanboi's in the Amiga room of Citadel BBS's, doesn't it Jeff?

I see you haven't changed much ;)


Oh, come on Jeff.  You have always enjoyed this little cat and mouse game
you play, putting out little bits of cheese for the fanbois to pounce upon,
and then firing your intellectual ammunition at them.  If you didn't enjoy
it, you wouldn't find yourself in these arguments so much.


I sense yet another argument about the inability of the Amiga's serial port
to maintain MIDI baud rates reliably...  Or a rant about how OS/2 is going
to replace the Amiga because IBM knows what it's doing, and Commodore
doesn't.


Oh, a rant about code cleanliness.  That was my next guess.

Most people were brought up to believe that malloc could not fail, because
if you ran out of memory the OOM killer would either free up more memory or
kill the process.  Unfortunately, this "wisdom" comes from the days when
people could imagine ever needing to allocate more than the maximum working
process size, and they didn't imagine that a computer could have enough
memory to actually allow that.

In 32 bit systems, it's now quite possible for malloc to fail, when that
was so far beyond imagination just a few years ago.  In 64 bit systems,
however, it's unlikely that malloc will ever fail in the foreseeable
future.

In any event, yes.  Good, clean code should check malloc, and that's
especially true on 32 bit systems where you require a large amount of
memory (or in embedded systems without virtual memory).


Indeed.


Which may be the ultimate reason for a seperate daemon.
  netcat replied...
08-Apr-08 01:53 PM
Shuttleworth has given Debian ample credit, and huge amounts of code
filter back down to Debian from his 60 paid programmers and the rest of
the Ubuntu developer community.


Debian is a technical distribution designed for technical uses and
technical users. Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Mepis, etc., are specifically
designed to be easy for new and non-technical users to install and
administer. I would *never* hand a new non-technical user a Debian CD
and expect him to be able to install and configure it himself.
  Ignoramus15795 replied...
08-Apr-08 01:59 PM
While Ubuntu is easier for "average people" to use (until they hit
snags, that is), there is nothing in Ubuntu that makes it less
powerful or less available for advanced use, than any other debian
based distro.

I wasted half a year due to this misinformation about how Ubuntu is

i
  Josef Moellers replied...
09-Apr-08 03:50 AM
And, probably, Linus' father used all his wealth and influence to give
his son's toy OS a good start?

Personally, I didn't even know the "astronaut" Mark Shuttleworth was
behind the Distribution that I installed on my notebook.

--
These are my personal views and not those of Fujitsu Siemens Computers!
Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize (T.  Pratchett)
Company Details: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/imprint.html
  Moshe Goldfarb replied...
09-Apr-08 03:53 AM
No.
His father's wealth gave him a good education and the opportunity to
succeed.
Which he did.



Most of you Ubuntu fanbois seem rather ignorant.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
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be stupid you a.c.a-v freaks. For the rest of you, even you Linux freaks, this should be right up your alley. I have newbie questions such as: 1 they know it all. You know who you are. Yeah you. Ash whole. RL Windows Vista Discussions MySQL (1) Windows Server (1) Windows 7 (1) Oracle (1) Office (1) Python (1) Vista (1) Linux (1) Newsgroups: alt.comp.anti-virus, microsoft.public.windows.vista.general, alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, comp.os linux.setup Not antivirus, not vista, not homebuilt, not linux setup - and RL does not read some of the groups that he crossposts to f
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