Windows 7 - Partitioning New Hard Drive

Dell Dimension E521  Win XP SP3



I have just cloned my 250 GB HD, Sector by sector, to a new 500 GB HD using a
caddy and EaseUS free. I have removed the old HD and replaced it with the new
one and got it up and running.



When I go to Disk Management for the new HD, I see the following



55 MB FAT  Healthy (EISA Configuration),   (C:) 228.13 GB NTFS Healthy
(System),  4.64 GB FAT32 Healthy (Unknown Partition),  232.94 GB
Unallocated.



With a little research, I think the 55 MB is for Dell Diagnostics and the
4.64 GB FAT32 partition is a backup of the original OS.



My OS has been upgraded to SP3 so is there any point in having this
partition.  I tried to do a recovery last year and got a message saying it
was the wrong OS.



What I would like to do is delete the 4.64 GB partition and allocate the
freed up space plus the 232.94 unallocated portion of the new HD to drive C.
When I right click on the 232.94 unallocated GB and start the Partition
Wizard I get the option of creating a Primary Partition or an Extended
Partition.  Which option should I choose to make all the space part of the
C: drive and will the new partition be NTFS?

I did no research on your computer so what I write here may be in error.

That could be a recovery partition, which Dell and others put on hard
drives in lieu of providing you with recovery CD/DVD's.


When you tried the recovery, did you select  a destructive recovery, if
that is an option, which would wipe out your drive?

I go against the crowd in this aspect.  I make C:\ about twice the size
needed by the OS and any installed software.  I do not store any data on
the C:\ drive.  I take the remaining space on a hard drive and partition
into a separate drive D:\.  I redirect My Documents to D:\.

I store absolutely everything I create, copy, download (I never put
files in the default Download folder.), etc. on D:\.

Why?  If something happens to your XP installation that requires a
repair/reinstall of XP, one of the first things you have to do is deal
with your data you do not want to lose.  By storing all your data on
D:\, or some other storage medium, that step is already done.  Just
reinstall XP and get on with your life.   <grin>  Just watch out for the
occasional software that does not allow you choose where your data is
saved.  My original Garmin software does that, but I no longer use the
Garmin software.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

Thanks for the quick reply.  What I eventually intend is to put the old HD
back in the PC and use it for backups.  I.E. have two HD's.

Is it safe to delete the original backup OS amd partition the whole of the
new HD as C: and how do I do this?  I will still have a copy of the
reinstall partition on othe old HD

I have a Dell also.  I'd advise against doing this, as the Dell BIOS boot up
procedure expects your OS to be on a certain partition number that will be
different IF you delete either of those two hidden Dell partitions (so you
would not be able to boot up again).

Yes, it is possible to delete them - IF you know how to properly reconfigure
boot.ini (etc) (which I do not, so I will not mess with it).   That 4.64 GB
risks you would  be taking (by deleting that partition and no longer being able
to boot up again).

You're welcome.


Depending on what you mean by "backup" and what/how you do it, I would
do something different than it appears you want to do.


For the sake of our discussion, I will assume (bad, bad word!  LOL) the
partition you refer to as the "original backup OS" is a recovery partition.

Define "safe".  <grin>  If you have no system Cd's to restore your
computer, that will work with your product id, how would you reinstall
XP?  If you never, ever need to have that backup OS, delete it.  Bill in
Co is correct that the BIOS or whatever controls the recovery process
will probably expect the recovery data to be in a certain partition,
which is why I leave that partition alone and never change the drive
letter for it.  My HP with Win7 has a recovery partition, but the drive
is full of bad sectors in that partition, so it is useless.  But, it is a
1TB drive, and I do not need the extra space.

Your plan assumes the original hard drive has no errors in the XP
installation, too.

I have only owned one computer with a recovery partition, the HP I
mentioned, and to get it up and running, I had to buy recovery DVDs.
The DVDs restored the hard drive to the way it came out of the box,
recovery partition and all.  Obviously, no write verify.

I set my computers up like "the old days", where storage space is at a
premium, and it was assumed the hard drive(s) would fail fairly soon.  I
still use those theories/practices for data storage.  I do not put data
on the primary/boot drive without an ongoing backup plan for that data.

If you would like the details of what I do, and would do if your
computer was mine, feel free to send me an email.  it is off topic for
your question.  :-)

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

Almost everyone thinks "assume" is a bad bad word. But I completely
disagree. There is nothing wrong with assuming all sorts of things.
Almost everything you do in life in based on assumptions. When you
walk across the street when you have a green light, you assume that
the cars with the red light will stop and not run you over. When you
fly in an airplane, you assume that there is no terrorist on the plane
who will blow it up. When you make love with your wife, you assume
that she has not caught AIDS from someone else. Etc, etc. etc.

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP

OMG Ken! Thanks a lot! Now I am afraid to fly, cross at a light, and to
get married. LOL

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP2

The PC came with a C and D partition.  The D partition was combined into the
C partition a year or so ago.  I cannot remember why I did it now.  Whether
the backup files are still in the same place on the disk, I have no idea.
There have been many disk defragmentations.

As I stated above, I did try to repair the OS in the past but got the
message that it was not the correct OS.  I think it was first upgraded to
SP2 and then SP3 since I bought it.  If I *was* able to restore from it ,
the PC would be set back to the first edition of XP and half of the programs
would probably not work.    In the circumstances I cannot really see the
point in this.

I assume that I am currently booting up from the C drive and do not see how I
would need the restore partition unless I wanted to go back to the original
edition of XP.  However, I am by no means an expert on this.  Ideally, I
would like a backup CD with XP SP3 but I do not know where I could get this.

If I am booting up from the C  drive, in light of the above, why not delete
the recovery partition?  It will not affect how the PC is working at
present.  Will it???

Also if I want to use the 232.94 unallocated GB as part of the C drive do I
use Primary Partition or an Extended Partition. in the Wizard?

That's why I take the train, look both ways when crossing the street,
and never got married!    LOL

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

that even the stopped cars will not start up and run you down, and that
whatever women (or men) you have relations with, or even shake hands
with, will not get you infected.

My point is simply that just about every choice you make in life is
based on assumptions.

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP

From: "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid>


And risks!



--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

Did you read what I said about the Dell BIOS boot sequence and what it
expects the layout of the HD to be (with the hidden partitions being
present) to be able to successfully boot up into Windows?  (i.e.: Loading
the PBR from the correct place, etc).


As a separate partition, OR just expanding (widening) the current one to
encompass the unallocated disk space?

Generally speaking, the need for a Primary Partition is pretty limited (and
they are limited to a total of only 4, as I recall), so you are probably
thinking of an extended one, OR just allocating that unallocated space to
one within the existing one by widening the existing one, but I cannot tell
from your question.

Keep in mind that if you do any partition work, you would  better have a good
(and bootable) backup somewhere.

That was my precise point to him, but I think it sailed on by...   :-)
In retrospect I think it was nice that Dell included that recovery partition
but it sure makes things complicated if you want to remove it AND
successfully be able to boot up into windows again.   You *cannot* just
simply delete that partition and expect to boot up again, due to the Dell
BIOS routines.

Besides, that 4.7 GB used for the (now unneeded) recovery partition is
inconsequential, anyways.   A word to the wise is sufficient.   :-)
(that said, I would not mind someday somehow getting rid of it, but life is
too short, and I do not want a non-bootable computer just for my
experimenting in that one and very precarious area :-).

WHAT train?????   They do not have real trains and dining, for that matter,
anymore.  Alas, that all went out about a half century ago, when jets came
in, and the "experience" of flying ... became more like riding a Greyhound
bus.

I am still looking for H.G. Wells.  Please sign me up, if you get there
first.

They may not be as plush as they used to be, but you can still do it!
Never enjoyed traveling as much as I did my first train ride as an adult.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

Why not image the whole drive to a file, experiment, the reinstall the
image?

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

Absolutely!

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP

Of course, I do "assume" I will wake up in the morning.  Want to go back
to the area of the vicious cactus for some more exploration!   LOL


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

Well, yeah, and I can still fly on airplane today, but comparing the
experience today, with half a century ago, is a joke.   it is more akin to
going to the greyhound bus terminal, and riding a bus.  Well, almost.  :-)

Where do you live? Here in the U.S. we still have passenger trains.
The east coast has plenty, but there are trains that travel all the
way to the west coast, too.

Speaking of Greyhound, they still run, too.

I guess as long as he has a bootable CD (like the Acronis one), that might
work.  Of course that assumes the image is A-ok, and included *everything*
on the HD, including the hidden partitions, and MBR, if I am not mistaken.

I do not think it is a big deal. it is simple enough to make the system
bootable again.

If it is a disk image, it is all there. If it is a partition image, then
no.

Well, if you want to feel like the cow in the herd, fly.  :-)

But, if you want to relax, visit, see some great scenery up close, meet
and get to know some great people, take the train.

And revel in some if the prettiest scenery you will never see from 30,000'.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

I am in Colorado, and I think the pickin's here are a bit limited.   No, this
ain't the East Coast.   :-)

That said, this is NOTHING like it was a half century or so ago, no matter
where you live, and comparing them is like ... comparing apples to oranges.

I will have to take your word for it since I am not old enough to have an
opinion, but for the record people frequently remember things as being
better or nicer than they really were. I am not sure if there is any of
that going on here. :)

Anyway, I prefer to drive rather than fly or take a train or bus. I
like being able to travel at my own speed and take my own route.

Talk about thread drift!

All you have to do is read some railroad history to know the level of
service today is not what it used to be.  And if you have never taken a
train, no comparison with other modes of travel is possible.  I had not
ridden one since before first grade.  Now, I would not want to go any
other way.

The only way you travel at your own speed, or close to it, is to be your
own transportation.  :-)

Bill, have you ridden the California Zephyr?


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

DITTO on airplanes.  And a LOT of other things, by the way.


Nope.  Which is kinda sad, considering that I once lived in CA.  :-)
But then again, I am not all that crazy about traveling, anyways.

If nothing else, take the train from Denver to Glenwood Springs and
spend the night.  The route takes you through some of the best scenery
in the country.  And the history of the original construction is
amazing.  "Locators" for the railroad actually worked from footbridges
hanging out over the river, and some workers actually worked from ropes
dropped from above.

Pictures do exist.  :-)   The Moffat Road, by Edward T. Bollinger and
Frederick Bauer.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 12.0
Thunderbird 12.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.2.2

I now have TWO HD's which are *exact mirror images* of each other.  The
original one has not been changed in any way.  This has been removed from
the PC so I can always put it back and boot from it if anything goes wrong
with the replacement.  I *am* going to put the original HD back in the PC as
soon as I get a data cable.  I could instruct the PC to boot from this
original HD if necessary.  Therefore, I think I *have* got some backup if
anything goes wrong with the replacement.

What I want to do is free up as much space on the new HD (the one currently
in the PC) as possible.  I want to be able to widen the new HD so that I can
use all the unallocated space on it so that when I go to 'My Computer' it
will only show one HD which is the C: drive.  If it is possible, I would
also like to free up the space taken by the 4.64 GB FAT32 partition  backup
of the original OS by deleting it and including the freed space with the
unallocated space in a wideded HD.

What I am trying to avoid is having the new HD split into more that one
drive, e.g. C: and D:

For you and me, sure. But I am amazed when I try those fix boot
utilities that those with less experience uses. So many of them get it
wrong and I wonder what is wrong with those developers of such utilities?

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP2

it is very interesting to learn about some peoples' travel experience but
this does not answer my questions!

55 MB FAT  Healthy (EISA Configuration),
(C:) 228.13 GB NTFS Healthy (System),
4.64 GB FAT32 Healthy (Unknown Partition),
232.94 GB Unallocated.

Simple. Using a partition manager application, "slide" the 4.64GB
partition all the way to the right. That would be a "Move/Resize"
operation, where you grab the slider and move the partition
to the right. Click "Apply". It should not take long to move it
up to the end, as you are doing 4.64GB of copying.

Now, you will have 228.13GB C: with a 232.94GB "space" to the right of
it. Do a "Move/Resize" type operation, to expand the C: partition to take
the remaining space. (Pull on the right hand side of the partition in
the GUI, to expand it and occupy the free space.) This should not really
take very long, except the tool will probably want to do a chkdsk-like
operation before and after completion. It would be overkill, for
such an operation to require zeroing out the empty space.

Now, you should be left with:

55MB FAT (Dell partition of some sort)
C: Approx. 460GB
4.64GB FAT32

for a total of three partitions, and saving most
of the space for C:.

Since you have a backup and claim to be happy with it, you
can select any old partition manager you want. Even a free
one will do. If the free one you select, trashes the disk,
just re-clone the old one.

I do not recommend deleting the other partitions, as there
will always be the possibility of regrets in the future. For
example, you tire of the computer, offer it for sale, and
the new owner gets a 500GB C:. If the two other partitions
are there, they can reinstall the OS if they want, using
the recovery partition. Many buyers of used computers,
find the previous owner erased such partitions, and then
they have to fork out $25 to $50 and try and find a set
of CDs to fix it up. In that case, it is not the money as
much as the wasted time. Leaving the tiny partitions, is
like leaving some "bread crumbs".

Paul

If he just simply deletes that Dell 4.64 GB FAT 32 partition, he will not be
able to boot up again, Paul, due to the Dell BIOS loading PBR redirect
routines, UNLESS he successfully modifies the boot.ini files (and possibly
something else).

When you boot up some of these Dell computers, what comes up on the BIOS
booting up screen is a brief text message, "Loading PBR for Descriptor
2...", and that would not happen anymore (unless that other stuff were taken
care of).

Thanks a lot.  That's exactly what I wanted to know :-)

So, how did it work out, Wesley?  Any problems?
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP  Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+